Thank you so much, Ann! And thank you for reading. Do you mean the fiction one? I'm afraid that I never could make it work.
I tried submitting it to a few literary journals way back then, but it never even earned an editor's reply. I think that the long-delayed parts IV and V of my ”On dreams” essay series speaks to some of the same issues, but using stories written by other people as the basis…
You pose such interesting questions about reasons to write fiction, and for whom, to whom to write.
I have a private answer to the first, but not to the second. I find myself writing a short story when I need something through -- a problem to which I don't see an argumentative path, a problem that I can't see as one to be adjudicated or even opinionated about. A problem I need to play out in my mind.
Recently I stumbled upon criticism of "writing for yourself," which was directed at younger writers. I thought the criticism unfair because I think it's increasingly hard to picture a viable audience. A writer for whom the pandemic was a formative experience might genuinely struggle in this respect, and not because of a failure of imagination or empathy but due to a loss of time and experience that could have been gained had things been different. I'm obviously older. The pandemic was not formative for me but it definitely deepened my sense that the older I get the harder I find making friends or even getting on friendly terms with people. My sense of audiences has become abstract, a little less human and alive than I would like.
Perhaps the poet's advice to you was good. I don't know. But reading your synopsis of that short story draft I found myself thinking about how the story's stakes might be different for different audiences. And that maybe our ideas of literature, what "works" in a story and what doesn't, don't have enough opportunities of being tested and influenced by sharing in environments that aren't craft workshops or work with an editor but some sort of another viable community where stories get read. These are just loose thoughts -- sorry if they don't cohere.
Thank you — there is a lot to think about here. I have also been thinking about your own interesting recent piece. I characterized it in a Note as being about the fear of writing badly, but thought afterwards that I should have said that it was both about the fear of writing badly and the fear of writing for the wrong reasons, since I think it touched movingly and interestingly — and thought-provokingly — on each of those, both in your own text and in the quotes from authors that you included.
Writing for oneself vs writing for others is a hard one. I think that ”good” writing — by which I mean here nothing more complex than writing that I myself enjoy — has a kind of porousness to it, a sense that the writer and reader are in conversation even if there is no explicit language that implies that in any way. The ”write in your teaching voice” advice was likely related to that (she was a teacher herself, and apparently a gifted one). In teaching one connects to the people in the room. It's harder with writing (for me, in any case,) but one can try to feel the presence of other people in the room, if that makes any sense, and I think was the point of the advice, and spot on in my case with regard to the fiction. (I can't claim any sense of success; am very much muddling my way through.)
Come to think of it, though, one of the most delightful discussions I know of different kinds of relationship roles a writer can choose with the reader is the first half of a book called Clear and Simple as the Truth, by Francis-Noel Thomas and Mark Turner. I haven't read the second half, which is a sort of how-to guide, but the first half feels like an extended essay, and is just a pleasure to read. I'll post a link, because I think it addresses the question you mention of an a non-abstract audience beautifully: it's at the core of the authors' description of ”classic style.”
Thank you! I think that my earlier response to this was inadequate, and would like to begin again.
— Your own recent piece spoke beautifully to some of these questions of audience.
— The questions of writing for oneself vs writing for others is incredibly hard. I think that some writers achieve their goals without thinking of any readers at all (I once chatted with an excellent German novelist who said that he never thought about the readers).
But if I try that, it doesn't become the kind of writing that I consider ”good” for MYSELF, as a writer. (Because contra to what I said in the first reply, there is non-porous writing that I also enjoy, now that I think about it.)
The poet's advice helped because she intuited that there was more communication in person than she was feeling on the page, and this was a way to bridge the gap.
It happened once in a playwriting class too, incidentally. Everyone wrote opening monologues, and then performed each other's.
The other person read mine and it was awful. There was an embarrassed silence (embarrassed for me, I mean, because the writimg was so bad). I asked if I could read it out myself, and this time it did exactly that I had hoped for. It was as if it were two entirely different texts.
Somehow the voice on the page wasn't the voice of communication in person, even with the same words. That experience too has gone into the attempts to write fiction also,
— The first half of the book Clear and Simple as the Truth, by Francis-Noel Thomas and Mark Turner, is a delightful. I can't speak to the second half of the book, which is more guidance, because I haven't read it, but the first part is like a long extended essay, very enjoyable, and their focus, in discussing ”classic style” is all about the way the writer relates to the reader. It's just a pleasure to read.
Thank you for all of the effort and thought you put into your Substack. It has given me so much pleasure.
Thank you, Renate, in every way. I'm glad, and this means so much! Thank you for your support of the writing.
Your story sounds so good, Maria, with an important message for our times. I look forward to reading it when you are ready to share it.
Thank you so much, Ann! And thank you for reading. Do you mean the fiction one? I'm afraid that I never could make it work.
I tried submitting it to a few literary journals way back then, but it never even earned an editor's reply. I think that the long-delayed parts IV and V of my ”On dreams” essay series speaks to some of the same issues, but using stories written by other people as the basis…
You pose such interesting questions about reasons to write fiction, and for whom, to whom to write.
I have a private answer to the first, but not to the second. I find myself writing a short story when I need something through -- a problem to which I don't see an argumentative path, a problem that I can't see as one to be adjudicated or even opinionated about. A problem I need to play out in my mind.
Recently I stumbled upon criticism of "writing for yourself," which was directed at younger writers. I thought the criticism unfair because I think it's increasingly hard to picture a viable audience. A writer for whom the pandemic was a formative experience might genuinely struggle in this respect, and not because of a failure of imagination or empathy but due to a loss of time and experience that could have been gained had things been different. I'm obviously older. The pandemic was not formative for me but it definitely deepened my sense that the older I get the harder I find making friends or even getting on friendly terms with people. My sense of audiences has become abstract, a little less human and alive than I would like.
Perhaps the poet's advice to you was good. I don't know. But reading your synopsis of that short story draft I found myself thinking about how the story's stakes might be different for different audiences. And that maybe our ideas of literature, what "works" in a story and what doesn't, don't have enough opportunities of being tested and influenced by sharing in environments that aren't craft workshops or work with an editor but some sort of another viable community where stories get read. These are just loose thoughts -- sorry if they don't cohere.
Thank you — there is a lot to think about here. I have also been thinking about your own interesting recent piece. I characterized it in a Note as being about the fear of writing badly, but thought afterwards that I should have said that it was both about the fear of writing badly and the fear of writing for the wrong reasons, since I think it touched movingly and interestingly — and thought-provokingly — on each of those, both in your own text and in the quotes from authors that you included.
Writing for oneself vs writing for others is a hard one. I think that ”good” writing — by which I mean here nothing more complex than writing that I myself enjoy — has a kind of porousness to it, a sense that the writer and reader are in conversation even if there is no explicit language that implies that in any way. The ”write in your teaching voice” advice was likely related to that (she was a teacher herself, and apparently a gifted one). In teaching one connects to the people in the room. It's harder with writing (for me, in any case,) but one can try to feel the presence of other people in the room, if that makes any sense, and I think was the point of the advice, and spot on in my case with regard to the fiction. (I can't claim any sense of success; am very much muddling my way through.)
Come to think of it, though, one of the most delightful discussions I know of different kinds of relationship roles a writer can choose with the reader is the first half of a book called Clear and Simple as the Truth, by Francis-Noel Thomas and Mark Turner. I haven't read the second half, which is a sort of how-to guide, but the first half feels like an extended essay, and is just a pleasure to read. I'll post a link, because I think it addresses the question you mention of an a non-abstract audience beautifully: it's at the core of the authors' description of ”classic style.”
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691147437/clear-and-simple-as-the-truth?srsltid=AfmBOop4Xkd_0B8nZdFvNq01nLWi9yDtXsaf36R0oJ2cnFndui5adLqp
Their book is on non-fiction, but I think can easily be applied to fiction as well, with the appropriate changes.
Thank you! I think that my earlier response to this was inadequate, and would like to begin again.
— Your own recent piece spoke beautifully to some of these questions of audience.
— The questions of writing for oneself vs writing for others is incredibly hard. I think that some writers achieve their goals without thinking of any readers at all (I once chatted with an excellent German novelist who said that he never thought about the readers).
But if I try that, it doesn't become the kind of writing that I consider ”good” for MYSELF, as a writer. (Because contra to what I said in the first reply, there is non-porous writing that I also enjoy, now that I think about it.)
The poet's advice helped because she intuited that there was more communication in person than she was feeling on the page, and this was a way to bridge the gap.
It happened once in a playwriting class too, incidentally. Everyone wrote opening monologues, and then performed each other's.
The other person read mine and it was awful. There was an embarrassed silence (embarrassed for me, I mean, because the writimg was so bad). I asked if I could read it out myself, and this time it did exactly that I had hoped for. It was as if it were two entirely different texts.
Somehow the voice on the page wasn't the voice of communication in person, even with the same words. That experience too has gone into the attempts to write fiction also,
— The first half of the book Clear and Simple as the Truth, by Francis-Noel Thomas and Mark Turner, is a delightful. I can't speak to the second half of the book, which is more guidance, because I haven't read it, but the first part is like a long extended essay, very enjoyable, and their focus, in discussing ”classic style” is all about the way the writer relates to the reader. It's just a pleasure to read.
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691147437/clear-and-simple-as-the-truth?srsltid=AfmBOop4Xkd_0B8nZdFvNq01nLWi9yDtXsaf36R0oJ2cnFndui5adLqp